[PODCAST #17] Resolving Conflict – Part 3
In this podcast, Paul and Jenny discuss how to determine if you are an internal or external processor. Once you discover this, it will help you see how the way you are wired is contributing to the conflicts in your life.
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TRANSCRIPT – [PODCAST #17] Resolving Conflict…Understanding How You Process
Welcome to “Whatever it Takes Radio”, helping you do whatever it takes to succeed in marriage and in life.
Paul Speed: Hello, I am your host Paul Speed and today I am in the studio with my wife Jenny. Hello Jenny.
Jenny Speed: Hi honey.
Paul Speed: It’s great to be with you again today and I am excited because we are continuing a series we’ve been talking about conflict. Conflict, everybody’s favorite subject. And I know for me most of my life that has not been my favorite subject and I know in Podcast 15, when we started this, it was the revelation of the epiphany I had at the end of last year in regards to conflict. And what a huge difference I know that’s made in our relationship but I can tell just in my life and that was seeing that I viewed conflict as bad, as wrong, and therefore when we did have conflict in marriage, or at work, or if I had it at any facet of my life, something was broken, something was wrong, and I ran from it. I never saw conflict as beneficial, or good, or something to be worked through, or even saw the benefits of it. I would hear you talk about it but it just didn’t register with me. So to discover that at the core of my belief system, that I really did view conflict as bad, that was a real eye opener for me. And I think it’s helped me changed. I can tell in the last month and a half to two months it’s made a huge difference to my life and just the way I relate with you and I relate with others. So I am going to be real brave and I want to ask you, can you tell a difference?
Jenny Speed: Absolutely, I can tell a difference. It’s one of the things that I can see is the difference between running from conflict and leaning into conflict. And I have seen that you haven’t been running from it, and as a result of that, your responses to conflict have been much, much healthier and we are able to really resolve a lot of issues, big and small, that used to would have spun us out for days. And so, I am excited and thrilled about the new Paul Speed.
Paul Speed: Yeah. Well, let’s hope it continues. I wasn’t looking for brownie points but since you gave them then that’s really helpful. But, I really can tell you and it’s amazing to me because if something we’ve talked about, in ministry we’ve seen it, I work with men at my 4 Days 2 Freedom on the sexual brain, helping them to go back to their belief system about sexuality to how did they get to where they are. And we know that it’s renewing of the mind that’s how we are transformed and made into his image. So, for me to never be able to process, or to be able to really understand that the way I viewed conflict was having basically 95% of the way I engaged in conflict, or ran from conflict and so forth, was based out of my belief in it. And that was huge for me because that’s something I can change.
Jenny Speed: Absolutely. I look back Paul to when we were doing our pre-marriage counseling, before we were ever married many, many years ago, I remember that in that pre-marriage counseling the pastor said to us, he said “I want you to look at your personalities” and he said “It’s pretty obvious to me that Paul, you are passive man and Jenny, you are a very dominant woman.” And so, we were like “Uh, okay.”
Paul Speed: But we knew that already.
Jenny Speed: We knew it already. But we didn’t have the tools of what to do with that information. Like, here’s the information, you are passive, Jenny is more dominant, and then we are just kind of left there with “Okay, now what do we do with that?” And I think this whole revelation that you’ve viewed, at the core of your being you viewed conflict as being bad and negative therefore you avoided it at all cost. That was a large part of why you had become a passive man because if you view conflict from the wrong perspective, you are going to be passive.
Paul Speed: You are going to run from it at all cost. Absolutely. And therefore I’d shy away from those conversations, those difficult issues that needed to be talked about. And I did that in every facet of my life not just husband and wife relationship but in work, and in child rearing and so many things, so it’s been huge. So, I encourage you, if you haven’t heard the last two podcasts, I encourage you to go back and listen to those. The first one was “A New Look at Conflict” and we talk about this epiphany and we encourage in that podcast to get down to the roots of what do you belief, how do you see conflict, its benefits, its problems, and how do you see you, at the core of your being, what do you believe about conflict. Because chances are that is dictating how you walk through it or don’t walk through it. And then the next podcast we did was in talking about things to look at in order to resolve conflict. In that one we touched on not being a fool. This is a really interesting topic because scripture warns us about confronting the fool and it doesn’t mean we have to walk around necessarily and try to diagnose everyone but our challenge to our listeners in that podcast was to look at yourself also and say “Am I the fool in this conflict?”
Jenny Speed: That has been a really eye-opening exercise for me in my life, is to be able to go to my children, and within our home, and to go to my team that I work with on a daily basis, and give them the right to bring up my blind spots, to point out areas in my life that I need to grow. And I think that has been just amazing for me because as I have allowed them to speak into my life, it really has helped me to be able to course correct things in areas of my life that I wasn’t being a good teammate to those on our team, I wasn’t being a good mother, I wasn’t being a good spouse to you Paul because I wasn’t willing to hear the hard things. And so, asking that question “Am I a fool?” a fool despises when he’s rebuked. As the scripture says that “Rebuke a fool and he’ll despise you. Rebuke a wise man and he’ll love you.” And so, it was my goal to be that wise woman who is willing to hear a rebuke, willing to hear where she’s wrong. And then it was also my goal to kind of eliminate those around me who were foolish and were not willing to hear, and so they were draining me, draining the life out of me in some cases, because they just weren’t in that place. Now I pray for me, I pray that god will bring them back into my life and they are in a place where they are open and willing to hear. But, that was a really good exercise for me and so I hope our listeners took us up on the challenge and they sat down with their children or their spouses and ask “Do you see me as a wise person who’s open and willing to take rebuke and hear it? Or do you see me as a fool?”
Paul Speed: Yeah. Those are really good– two great resources, we encourage you to go back and listen to if you haven’t done so already. Today though we want to talk about resolving a conflict in a different way, another tool that Jenny and I have used in our own relationship, and that is by understanding how you process, you’ve probably heard us talk in previous podcast before about internal processors versus external processors. So we are going to kind of unpack that again but this can be a really, really big area in the way you resolve conflict or don’t resolve conflict. So, to understand how you operate and how your spouse, or the one you are in a conflict with operates, can be really, really important to the success of that conflict and your ability to be able to walk through it. So when Jenny and I, we talk about internal, external processors, this came about years ago due to some conflicts we were having and one of our daughters pointed out– she knew exactly what was wrong with us, and she said “Mom you are an external processor and dad the internal processor.” and she could have been speaking a foreign language at that point we didn’t have a clue what she was talking about. But then the more she began to describe it to us and talk about it it really made sense to us.
Jenny Speed: I was very excited to hear this. This was our oldest daughter Bethany and she had been away serving with “Youth With a Mission” overseas and so sometime during that journey that she was on, someone brought up this teaching about internal versus external processor. So she came home and that was one of the first thing she said to us was “Mom, dad, I’ve discovered your problem.” and obviously we were really excited to hear that. And she began to lay out this teaching on external versus internal processor. And boy, she hit the nail on the head, it was so true, that I am an external processor. What that means is that in order to work through a solution I have to talk, I have to say it out loud, and I am the kind of person that you see in the grocery store who’s walking down the vegetable aisle with the canned vegetables and I am the one that’s, as I am walking, I am saying “Okay, I need three cans of green beans and two cans of corn.” and people are going “Who is that woman talking to?” Well, I am an external processor so I talk out loud as I am thinking.
Paul Speed: And I am the internal processor which is basically the exact opposite. I tend to mull over things inside way before they even have a chance to come out my mouth. So, you’ll hear Jenny in the store, she’s talking out loud and if she doesn’t understand something she’ll ask somebody even if they are not a clerk who works there. Where I’ll go in the store and out of the store and never talk to a person and if I can’t solve it, I’ll try to find another way besides engaging someone. So they both kind of have their negative traits. But an internal processor just tends to mull over things and I’ve got to think about it, I’ve got to process it and I’ve got to run through the different angles and all the different ways that this might look inside internally before I ever speak it externally. So, where this runs into a problem in a relationship is my personality, again, being internal, is I can get bogged down, I can get overloaded with thinking it through and therefor it never reaches the point of coming out my mouth through communication to the other person. So Jenny and I may have a disagreement, there may be something that comes up, and then I begin that process of mulling it over, she would need to talk about it and she might even be talking about it because she’s externally processing. I am processing internally, so it’s really a one-sided communication and it leaves us with bad results because she either walks away from it saying “Well, he agreed with me because he didn’t say anything.” or “Why won’t you talk to me?” and that’s because she’s wanting a response back. So, we looked at this a lot over the last few years and it’s helped us a lot in our communication but as we began to look at the series on resolving conflict this has been another big area that we’ve walked through and we’ve seen it does affect conflict in our lives. Just recently Jenny and I were on a trip, we had to go look at a facility to be hosting our marriage conferences and we were needed to check out some room sizes and some other things and we had had some discussions about one of the conferences we were having and over the last view months with ourselves, other board members, team leaders and others, just getting some feedback, and I would hear a lot of the conversation but I wouldn’t necessarily engage in the conversation because I was processing it internally as I normally would. And, unfortunately, I’ve found out, just the other day when we were on this trip, that because I hadn’t been processing this, it assumed that I was onboard with everybody else, and that is one of the negative sides and dangers of an internal processor. Because, again, my reluctance to be able to speak up, or unwillingness, however you want to say it, led Jenny to believe that “Hey, I was fully aware of the conversation, kind of onboard with doing this new conference and the way we were going to do it.” and it wasn’t that I was totally against it, I never reached the point of expressing my thoughts about it. So, when it was conversed and talked about, externally for Jenny, she was able to process through things, I internalized it and I didn’t realize that that gave a totally wrong communication to Jenny.
Jenny Speed: So let me put the meat on the bones here, or paint the picture with color, okay? Because you just gave the black and white, which is great. So here’s the color to the story, so Paul and I are at this facility and having a great day, we are in Asheville, North Carolina, it’s gorgeous weather, it’s nice to be away for a day, and we meet with the Activities Director, or our Events Coordinator, and so we are meeting and I’ve been involved in these conversations with our board over the last couple of weeks where we discussed whether or not we want to do this conference there in Asheville. And so, the last thing that I had heard from the Board President was “Hey, let’s do it. Let’s go for it. Let’s do it.” and so, in my mind, it was done deal, we are done, we are doing this. And so, we go to the Conference Center and there we are, we view the facility, we look at the rooms, we look at everything, and so we go back to the Events Coordinator’s office and she says “Okay, we need to go ahead and sign the contracts and wrap this thing up.” and then I am ready to go. And I look over at Paul and Paul is like “Oh, well, you know, I don’t know. Are we sure? Are you sure?” and I am like– I would just want to scream, “What are you talking about? Why did we drive four hours and you don’t even know if you want to do it?” But I didn’t, I didn’t verbally processed my frustration but instead I just sat there and I was so dumbfounded and actually I felt stupid. I felt really, really dumb because I am the one that’s kind of in charge of laying all this stuff up at the ministry so I’ve spent all this time, I’ve invested all this energy and now I am taking this woman’s time, I’ve set up an appointment and I am taking her time and my husband doesn’t even know if he wants to do it. And so, I experienced frustration but I just sat there, I didn’t externally process that frustration, I just sat there patiently and tried not to get upset and asked you “What are you thinking Paul?”
Paul Speed: Right. Well, I think– before we talk about how we walked through it, let’s take a short break. I think it would be good for the listeners and then stick around and we’ll talk through exactly how we resolved this.
[Commercial]: Hi, this is Paul Speed, founder of “Whatever it Takes Ministries” My wife Jenny and I have held hundreds of couples process through deep emotional pain from unresolved marital issues. We believe that we can help you find the answers you may be searching for. If your marriage is struggling, I encourage you to go to our website witministries.com for information on marriage incentives. That’s W I T ministries dot com. Or call 336-310-5050. And remember, your marriage is worth fighting for.
Paul Speed: Okay. Welcome back. Just so you’ll know, that was a planned break. I was listening to Jenny give the color description of our–
Jenny Speed: Analysis. The color analysis.
Paul Speed: Analysis, yes, the color analysis. And I thought “You know what? Let’s don’t solve this yet.” because we did need a break and this is the perfect time. But, before I tell you really how we resolved it and walked through it, I just want to say that in years pass this would have been a very, very big issue for Jenny. Her feelings would have been hurt, she would have begin to express how she was disappointed or that what I said hurt her, she didn’t feel heard, and when she would do that I would pull away, I would get quiet and then I’ll retreat inwardly. And we’ve talked about this on previous podcast before how my turtle shell of defense would come around and I would shut down. And sometimes this would lead into a one to a two week disagreement between us. In other words, a really, really difficult time of very little communication. Like two immature children almost and was a battle going on between them. So, god brought us a long way and it was great to be able to walk through something within the last couple of days that never really became a major conflict, it was something small. But it was interesting because when we left there, one of the first things Jenny said to me was that she didn’t understand where was I, in other words, we’ve been talking about this for weeks, we’ve had conversations with board members and other people, we’ve had text messages and email exchanges going back and forth with other people, and now you say that you are not onboard with this, or whatever? And I began to try to externally explain to her, process with her, what I was thinking. And I realized, as I began to talk to her, what it happened was internally I was processing this thing but it never reached the external plays. Every time there was a new conversation, a new exchange of emails, or something else, in my mind I didn’t really see it as “Hey, this is a definite. We are moving forward.” so when it finally reached that point I was like pulling back on the reins “Whoa, whoa, whoa, what do you mean we are ready to sign a contract and go ahead and move forward with this one?” And it would be easy for me at that point, like in the old days, I would have looked at Jenny and said “See? This is you. This is you moving forward. You are not considering me.” I would have never been self aware of myself and my own issues to see what have I done here. But very quickly, as Jenny and I begin to talk it through, I began to see that this area of internal processing had shut me down in this area. Conversations had been going on about it, there have been email exchanges and phone calls, and discussions with other people, but I never really processed what I was feeling about it and what I was thinking as far as if we were going to set this date, if we were not going to set this date, etc. So Jenny, because I was there in those conversations, she rightly in her way took that as if I was completely onboard with it. And so, to have a misunderstanding about it I was kind of shocked by, she was shocked by, but then very quickly we were able to see “Wait a minute. Where’s our weakness here?” and for me it showed up in this area of internal processing.
Jenny Speed: So, I think the good thing was that I didn’t react the way that I would have in the past. I didn’t get angry and upset and take it all personal. We did get in the car and I said– because in front of the lady there, the Conference Center, I said, “Okay, alright. That’s fine. I thought we were moving forward. I thought that’s what we were here for and doing.”
Paul Speed: And we tried to talk it out but it was awkward for both of us because you knew I was pulling back and I could see you were like ready, green light, move forward, and how do we have this conversation with a third party in the room now? So, it caused a little awkwardness but walked through it.
Jenny Speed: We got through it and then we got in the car and my first response to you was “Hey, can we just talk about what just happened in there?” and I said, “Because I felt really stupid.” I felt really stupid that I’ve spent all this time with this lady working out all these details, getting everything lined up, because I thought that we were moving forward. And I thought that with the phone conversation we had last week with the Board of Directors that they also said, the last words I heard from the Board President was “Let’s do it. Let’s book it. Let’s move forward.” And so I had no clue that you were not there, that you weren’t onboard with this. And so, I think the problem came that, like you said, you were internally processing but you never externally processed what was in internal and so I just assumed you were onboard. And so, that’s a lesson learned for me that I need to come back to you and say, “Hey, I know we’ve talked about this but you haven’t verbally processed what your thoughts are. Do we move forward?” So that’s a good checkpoint for me, to always check myself before I move forward on something and make sure that you are there. And then it’s also a good checkpoint for you to make sure that “Hey, I do need to express verbally what I am thinking.” because that’s an area that you struggle in.
Paul Speed: Well, it is. I think in this area of resolving conflict the challenge for us, as far as listeners and you and me, ourselves, is first of all to understand “What am I? Am I internal or am I external? Which boat do I fall in?” and then to understand what are those characteristics of an internal processor, like we said, it’s going to tend to– I’ve got to mull over things, I’ve got to process things and, unfortunately, what are the negative sides of that? Sometimes it can go on forever and that is true. We had a podcast on bitterness and other things and so much of that is because I don’t ever get it out, it goes over and over inside. I recognize now that this is who I am, this is the way I operate, this is the way god created my brain, it’s the way I function. So it’s got a lot of benefit to it, it does. But also it has negative sides and I need to be aware and be able to own up to those negative sides. And just like your external processing–
Jenny Speed: I can process forever. I know, right?
Paul Speed: Yeah. You’ve got positive sides though. And in fact if you think back to why were you drawn to me. You were drawn to me because I was a good listener. I was drawn to you because you communicated to me things I couldn’t express, feelings, and dreams, and thoughts, and I was just mesmerized by all that because–
Jenny Speed: Oh, your eyes are getting teary. This is sweet.
Paul Speed: Are they? But as a 24 year old young man and you from your 25 year old young lady, as I say, opposites attracted, and they really did because I saw someone who could communicate what I as an internal processor couldn’t do. And there was a part of you that couldn’t listen, in other words, you talked all the time, so you appreciated somebody that would just listen to you. So here we are 29 years later and this had become the potential to be a huge deficit in our marriage but yet god has changed that by helping us recognize “You know what? This is the way you are wired. You are an external processor. You are going to talk about what’s going on in your thoughts and you are going to be talking out loud those things.” “I am going to be internally processing.” It doesn’t give us an excuse though to look at the other person and say “You just have to accept me. This is the way I am, so deal with it.” in other words “I am never going to talk to you.” and you can look at me and say “Well, I am never going to be quiet.” that’s not right. And I think that’s what we are saying today is the challenge here in order to resolve conflict and be able to walk through it is recognize this area of your personality “Am I internally or am I external? How am I processing in this conflict and what am I reading about the other person in this conflict?” because chances are their processing in this way that god wired them. And if we can understand that about one another, but especially ourselves, this conflict the other day very quickly I was able to go to the place of saying “Wow, I see where I’ve contributed to this misunderstanding.” and you don’t have to agree with this but for years of our marriage that would have never happened and it would have shut me down. It would really wiped us out in an area to where we would eventually just moved past it. But to be able to go a little deeper and say “Wow, okay Paul, you are an internal processor, it’s got a lot good to it but here’s a negative. You’ve been hearing these conversations, you’ve been dealing with this information but you haven’t really expressed what you are feeling in this.” And I chose to express it at the last minute when we were in front of this lady who’d just given us the tour. Not the right time. It’s okay, it happened, but instead of it spiraling us out you were able to look at me and say “Wow, Paul is doing this, it’s finally coming out because he’s been internalizing it.” So you didn’t react, I was able to see my own error in that so I didn’t go into my belly button syndrome and my turtle and “Woe is me.” and “Here’s Jenny once again trying to force something down my throat.” it wasn’t any of that. We were able to walk through it because we saw the negative sides and the goods but we saw really how we were processing the information and the conflict.
Jenny Speed: And in the end you asked me to forgive you and you said “You know what? You are right. I didn’t verbalize what I was feeling. And that was an area that I need to improve in, that I didn’t do that. And I can understand where you thought we we’re moving forward.” and then I was able to say “Well, will you please forgive me for not checking back with you before I went to the next step.” That was an oversight for me. But here’s the thing with the verbal and the internal processor that we’ve learned that’s been really healthy for us, is putting the timer on ourselves. And so, like when you and I have a conflict and you begin to internally process– it doesn’t even have to be a conflict, let’s just say that there’s an issue–
Paul Speed: It could be a decision that has to be made. It could be anything.
Jenny Speed: Yeah. Decision that has to be made, and you will mull over that decision whether it’s like “Hey, can the girls go to the Youth Retreat next weekend?” And so, the girls are coming back to me saying “So mom, has dad decided yet?” and I am going to you saying “Hey, the girls need to know do they sign up for this youth thing?” and you are like “Ah, well…” because you are mulling over thinking through it and it’s just going to take longer, okay, but it will exasperate our children.
Paul Speed: It’s going to exasperate anyone who has to wait on an internal processor.
Jenny Speed: Yeah, exactly. So what we’ve done is we’ve learned to do, this is from Rey and Jane Alvarenga, who served on our team, they helped us with this years ago, is that Rey and Jane said to us “Paul and Jenny, you need to put a stopwatch, a time clock, on your processing.” And so, in other words, when I come to you and say “Hey, the girls are wanting to go on this Youth Retreat and I told them that I would ask you.” and so I now say “ Could you please seek the Lord, ask for wisdom and get back with me within 24 hours?” or I kind of “Are you okay with doing it within that time?” I mean I don’t put it on you and demand it but I ask you “So do you think you could let me know within 24 hours?” And so, you’ll either say “Yeah.” or “No, I need more time.” and so that’s really helped take that conflict off the table. And, in the same way, when I am verbally processing I have to have a time clock on me, stopwatch on me, because I will go on and on and on. And here’s one of the things is that’s wrong is if I feel like you are not listening to me, that you are not really hearing and understanding me, I would just come in it from a different angle and just go on and on and on, just trying my best to get you to–
Paul Speed: “If he’s not tuned into this channel I’ll try this channel.”
Jenny Speed: Exactly. And that’s a negative side of an external processor.
Paul Speed: Because the internal begins to shut down and gets annoyed. And then you talking or communicating externally becomes the whole problem. And that’s not really the problem. The problem is in the lack of communication because of the way the two were wired.
Jenny Speed: Yeah. So this has been a really hard one for me but I am doing better, aren’t I?
Paul Speed: Sure you are.
Jenny Speed: Sometimes I literally will have to sit on my hands to remind myself that “Okay, you’ve got to stop now. You can’t keep going. You’ve said, you’ve expressed your opinion, you’ve expressed your thoughts, you verbally processed.”
Paul Speed: And then our rule, our guideline is “Okay, Paul…” I’ll say “Jenny, I need two hours.” or “Let’s talk about this tomorrow morning. Let’s follow up on this.” if it’s not a critical thing that needs to be done right away. But that helps me, as an internal processor, realize I have got to externally get this out. But it helps you on the other hand say “You know what? Not everyone is like me. I need to mull over this myself and let this go and rest it until that time.”
Jenny Speed: And, obviously, both of us need to– the first thing we need to do is go to the lord and ask God for his perspective on whatever the situation is. Even this past week, we were doing a coaching session with a couple and this was their big hang-up is that we’ve given them some homework to work on from our last session and so when we were talking to them about their homework and what they had done one of the things that he had said to us was, “The problem is when I try to do the homework with my wife and I expressed the way that I feel, she will go on and on and on.” and he said “She will go on and on for at least three hours.” and he said “And I start shutting down.” And so, it was really good because I could relate to her. I really could relate to here. Therefore I have no condemnation coming my way because I could relate. But we were able to help them with this by me and you, both of us, explaining to them, “Okay, so when you guys get ready to do your homework from this week here’s what we want you to do. We want you to do your homework separately and then when you come back and you do begin to discuss your homework together we want you to use a simple stopwatch. Use a timer.” just say “Okay, we are going to do this and you are going to get 15 minutes to externally process.” and then the husband he has to process within 15 minutes. So he has to make himself do it. And then she has to make herself stop when the 15 minutes is up. And so, retraining your brain. If you are an external processor, like I am, you have to retrain your brain, and how to get things out quickly and then to let them go. A lot of it really is, as an external processor, is we are trying to convince the other person and that’s something that I had to recognize that’s a flaw in my personality. It goes back to that “right fighter” mentality that we talked about in earlier podcast. A lot of times it’s not that I just want you to hear me, I want you to agree with me. And so, that’s where the holy spirit has to come in and say “No, no, no, this isn’t about you trying to force your opinion on another person. It’s about you expressing your heart but then leaving room for God to work.”
Paul Speed: Right. I think that’s part of loving one another.
Jenny Speed: Absolutely.
Paul Speed: We understand each other’s weaknesses and we can sympathize with that and we also know how to come along and encourage one another. And we also do that by understanding our own weaknesses but we got to be willing to see those. Well Jenny, this has been a great topic again. I know we are going to be following up with some more episodes on conflict resolution and some different ways to look at it. We hope this has been helpful. And, as Jenny expressed earlier, I encourage you if there’s something that struck you in this conversation, you want to communicate with us, shoot us an email. It really does help us to get some feedback on what you are thinking and what you are feeling from these. Also Jenny and I want to encourage you because it is a new year, we’ve got our new schedule on the website of conferences coming up. And I know we’ve got a couples intensive, the first one of the year will be in April and it will be at the location we were talking about, in the beautiful Asheville, North Carolina, and we encourage you as a couple, if you haven’t attended one of our couples intensives we encourage you to do so, it’s a really remarkable time of getting connected and getting on the same page and allowing God to do some amazing things in your relationship.
Jenny Speed: And I also want to mention 4 Days 2 Hope, this 4 Days 2 Hope women’s intensive that we started 5 years ago has just been the most amazing thing as I have watched women who came to that weekend hurt and wounded not able to process through pain in their life in a healthy way, leave on Sunday so much healthier not being controlled by the things that have taken place in their life anymore. Really able to move forward from all the pain that has come their way. It’s just a wonderful time. So we want to encourage you. We have 4 Days 2 Hope coming up and then 4 Days 2 Freedom for the men throughout the year. So, check out our website for those dates.
Paul Speed: Yeah. Well, 4 Days to Freedom, just a real quick little verbatim, because I just had one in Tampa a few weeks ago and I will be having one in Illinois coming up. But man, these are life changing weekends and I can tell you I’ve done these for 7 years now and just to watch men coming in with what they feel are hopeless situations, sometimes not even understanding themselves or how they’ve gotten to where they are, and maybe not even recognizing the issues in their heart, but to be able to leave with such a clearness of mind and a whole new perspective and then watch God take their plan of action as they leave the weekend and just do incredible miracles in the lives of their wives, their families, and I’ve single guys that come and always encourage getting those positive feedback. So, got some great weekends coming up with the intensives so I encourage you to look online. And if it’s not for you recommend it somebody else, this is how the body of Christ functions is we encourage one another to do good work. So, send our website along to somebody you know that’s hurting or struggling and maybe, just maybe, we would be at resource that would be a blessing to them. So, thank you again for listening today. And if you’ve got more questions, or more you want to know about Whatever it Takes Ministries, or how we can help you, contact us through our website. Or you can call us at 336 310 5050. And Jenny and I want to thank you again for joining with us. So until next time, remember, your life can be different if you are willing to do whatever it takes.